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Offline michty_me

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Best router going
« on: 17 March 2013, 13:01:58 »
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If I do end up leaving my ISP, I believe I have to return the router.
What is the best routers on the go at the moment? I'm not too bothered about cost if it is an amazing bit of kit but would prefer not to go to far over 100-150 if possible.

I currently have the BE box and also have a 834GT from my UKO days but its aging a bit now.

I hear for being on 02/BE LLU (I'll be staying on this LLU as long as possible) it is best to stay with a broadcom chipset router? Anyone got any recommendations? I've heard a few good things about the Asus range and also read a few good things on the Netgear N600 (I think) as it has a great wifi range. I've also read stuff about Billion routers and Draytek but still I have no idea which would be good.

I'm not really needing anything massivly fancy as I have not used different firmwares other than what came with my router. I just want something that is most compatible with my line and can be tweaked if I ever need to.

Offline snadge

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #1 on: 17 March 2013, 15:30:37 »
the Netgears tend to be tweakable but only if they are broadcom chipset, if by tweakable you mean changing the Noise Margin then yeah, so is the Billion 7800N which even though its popular and good..is also old!

other options are using 1 for modem/LAN and 1 for wifi/LAN - it just means you can combine something like your GT which is tweakable, with wifi off to a router that has great wi-fi (but no modem).

any router that has speeds above 300Mbps (such as 450Mbps) usually requires 3T3R (3 antennas) on the client side, this means your laptop card has to support those speeds AND have 3 antennas internally...most only have 1 or 2 - if on a 150Mbps wifi signal your laptop only syncs to 75Mbps or less then your laptop only has 1 antenna - also, anything 600 and above is a lie!! its all marketing ploy to get you to think you can get 600, 750 or 900Mbps when you can not! a 600Mbps router is 300Mbps on 2.4Ghz and 300Mbps on 5Ghz, you can use one or ther other!! a 900Mbps router is 450 on 2.4Ghz or 450 on 5Ghz, to recap: where it is 300Mbps or less per radio (2.4/5Ghz) you only need 2 antennas - if you expect to get 450Mbps then you need a card that supports those speeds and 3 antennas.
- really as your staying with ADSL its more about range rather than going for higher speeds, get a router that has good reviews for range.

5Ghz is weaker than 2.4Ghz for going through walls etc as its higher frequency, but it is a less congested network, if you have wifi problems and can see loads of your neighbours using all neighbouring channels on inSSIDer then you could consider 5Ghz but you would need 5Ghz wifi in laptop too.

As for which router is best/good - its just a case of googling reviews I suppose - the best router (without modem) is probably the one Tom bought for his FTTC which is the Asus N66U (Dark Knight) which has just about everything you can expect from a Wireless-N router - 450+450 wi-fi, 1Gbit LAN, USB ports, excellent range, fastest speeds going - but too use this you would need to hook it up to a modem.

if your toying with a N600 Netgear like the DGND 3700 (which I always wanted that one) some people reported issues, cant remember exactly but ive read its poor on ADSL1 connections but good on ADSL2+ - and make sure the version/revision your getting is Broadcom as I think there are two versions now and I dunno if they are both broadcom or what.

edit:
Quote
Firmware support and feedback for the DGND3700v1 was very poor before it was dropped altogether and superseded by the DGND3700v2 which also has poor firmware support and feedback. The in-built modems on both are very temperamental.

I can't recommend DSL hardware from a company who has a poor track record and even worse just gives up and releases a replacement model.

there is the DGND4000 which seems to get good reviews... its upto 300N on 2.4Ghz and upto 450N on 5Ghz - it uses Broadcom 6361 chipset

the FritzBox's are very popular too (and expensive) they get good reviews
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Offline Mein Fuhrer

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #2 on: 17 March 2013, 15:41:00 »
the range on the asus is unreal some people say they get quite hot but mine seems fine, and also some people have reported to put merlin firmware on and that makes the router run slightly cooler (which i have done)
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Offline michty_me

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #3 on: 17 March 2013, 23:42:25 »
Thanks Thomas and Snadge for the replies.

Just as well you said that I would require a modem with the N66U as I didn't realise it required one. I just assumed it was a modem/router. It does look the business though and was my first choice after reading the reviews.

As mentioned in my other thread, I am unsure when FTTC will be available in my area so it may be a false econemy buying an expensive ADSL2+ router then having to get a router for FTTC when it becomes available (Assuming I would need a different one)

I would like a proven reliable router that gives great performance though (Speed and wifi signal).
That Netgear 3700 was the one I was looking at also but if it has mixed reviews, Then I think I shall pass it by.

Any other ADSL2+ routers that you would recommend? Any Asus recommendations for ADSL2+?

I guess my question of best router is a bit daft as it woul dall depend on uses and requirements. An all rounder good stable router will be sufficient.

So requirements would be:

Reliable and stable
Compatable with 02/BE LLU (Broadcom chipset?)
Good strong wireless
Modem/Router Combo would be better.

Edit: After doing some further searching, Many keep suggesting the 834GT due to using the broadcom BCM6348 chipset. That is currently sitting gathering dust in a drawer at home. I'll give it a whirl and see what it is like on BE. I'll do a side by side comparison with syncs etc.

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #4 on: 18 March 2013, 00:08:27 »
There is the asus n56u which is meant to be good I'm sure you need a modem with that one also but for 20-30 more I would rather have the n66 I like the external antennas. I don't know if you saw in one of the other posts I could still pick my wifi up with my phone when I was a good 70 metres away
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Offline snadge

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #5 on: 18 March 2013, 00:11:08 »
another thing to mention is that ADSL routers can be used as Routers Only!! - so if you bought a decent one with modem you can use it with another modem...

in the Modem/Router you want to use as router only in conjunction with a different Modem
1. Disable DHCP
2. Change LAN IP to 192.168.x.200
3. Disable Wi-Fi (if you dont intend too use it)
thats it!
hook the LAN cable from any LAN port on that router to the LAN on the modem - with DHCP disabled and the router not having the same IP as the modem (hence changing it) it simply acts as a 'pass-through' in that whatever it receives on any of its LAN ports it shares via the other remaining LANs (and Wi-Fi if you wanted to) - I have to say that the modem is supposed to automatically assign IP addresses to devices on the network THROUGH the connected router, I have seen it work a couple of times at my sisters but ive not had much luck with it and ive had to assign a static address to each computer/phone/tablet in their IPv4 settings - this is better anyway as it makes for faster connection and no 'sleep conflicts' such as 1 computer sleeping while connected at 192.168.0.2 , meanwhile another device comes online and is given 192.168.0.2 because the router thinks its available, then the 1st device/computer wakes trying to use the same address...you get a conflict and any decent OS would simply 'automatically' ask for new one...but still to this day in windows it does not unless you invoke it yourself!!!...static IP's avoid all this - although I no longer use 2 routers I still have static IP's on all my devices which include 1 PC, 1 Laptop, 1 Tablet, 2 phones, 1 Sky Box

external antennas might be ugly too some...but they give the best range... hehe
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Offline Inactive

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #6 on: 18 March 2013, 01:02:07 »
PC World have the Asus RT-N66U for 109 99, not sure if that is the best price available?

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/ASUS-RT-N66U-N900-Dual-Band-Wireless-Router-20876901-pdt.html?srcid=11026

Offline michty_me

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #7 on: 18 March 2013, 01:42:19 »
Thanks gents.
I think at the moment I will hook up the 834GT to see how it copes.
I was actually surprised at the standard BE box and its wifi capabilities. I still receive wifi out in my flat carpark (2nd floor flat and router is in a room on the opposite side of the building. I could even receive wifi from the rear of the local bar!!!  8)

Found this wiki:
http://beusergroup.co.uk/technotes/index.php?title=Routers

Offline snadge

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #8 on: 18 March 2013, 03:47:28 »
I have a 834GT - its a good Wireless-G router, however wireless-N will give you a better signal for range & reception , in locations where I typically get -50dBm (good signal) on Wireless G, I get about -30dBm (excellent signal) on Wireless-N - and as N supports higher speeds it means you can get better speeds at distance.

the GT is a Super-G router using Atheros 'Super-G' tech to get 108Mbps sync... but to get it you need a 108Mbps 'Super-G' card in your laptop and it only goes into 108Mbps mode should the bandwidth require it, you will always see 54Mbps sync (except in windows XP which does show 108Mbps sync the whole time) - I know as I tried it all hehe... its actually a good clever bit of tech Super-G

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_G_(wireless_networking)

It uses Compression, Frame-Bursting and Channel Bonding to get actual throughput speeds of 40-60Mbits on Wireless-G, which is the same speeds as wireless-N on a standard 150Mbps sync, not bad considering the max actual throughput on wireless-g is circa 18-22Mbps
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Offline michty_me

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #9 on: 18 March 2013, 12:31:47 »
I never had any issues with the 834GT either. I thought it was a good bit of kit.
I seem to remember that I gave a friend a shot of it when I went to the BE box. Hope I got it back. If not, I'll look for another. No biggie.

Last night at work, I stumbled across the Billion series routers which seem to get good reviews. I was looking at the 7800DXL which future proofs if fiber comes. Apparently there has been some teething issues with it though like the 7800n.

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #10 on: 18 March 2013, 12:49:42 »
This site is good sometimes http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/
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Offline michty_me

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #11 on: 18 March 2013, 13:08:59 »
This site is good sometimes http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/

Thanks for that. I'll have a browse :)

Offline michty_me

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #12 on: 19 March 2013, 00:24:36 »
Ok so I have found this item here the Asus AC66U (AC1750):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-RT-AC66U-Diamond-Dual-Band-Gigabit/dp/B008O56HXC

From what I have read about it, It seems to have great reviews once the latest firmware is installed.

However and excuse my stupidity with these things, Will it allow me to have a wired connection without the need for a seperate modem? I tried comparing it to the N66U but I couldn't see much difference which would tell me if it was a wireless access point only.
I've been out of this researching malarky for too long so getting a bit confused with what is capable of what, Which is a wireless only switch, Which is a modem only etc etc.
Going from a review on Amazon, Someone said they bought one to replace their Billion 7800n so I am assuming it is something I would be after possibly.

Offline KRW

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #13 on: 19 March 2013, 06:42:39 »
that is a cable router and you would need a separate modem (your old router in bridged mode perhaps)
Windows 10 Home 64bit    Netgear D7000
Down/Up Connect Speed  80/20 Mbp (max speed 70Mb/19Mb) updated
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=1483655240613837255

Offline Mein Fuhrer

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #14 on: 19 March 2013, 07:45:26 »
And with the asus rt-ac66u ac is the new wireless protocol so no point getting it unless you upgrade your devices which i just had to do with my laptop new wifi card and a third antenna so i can use the 5.0ghz wireless network. and i didnt look into in to much but a few people are complaining about the ac router. If you dont mind what you want to spend i would get mine mate its a beast but like i say you will have to upgrade things to be able to use both wireless networks. you would still need a modem or do what krw said above
Mein Breitband schnell ist, erhalte ich 80 Megabit pro Sekunde,
Ich bin mit NAZI-NET Internet Provider, Es ist gut, ja?


Offline michty_me

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #15 on: 19 March 2013, 11:43:54 »
I realised the answer to my question after downloading the user manual several hours after.
A bit crap really that I'm struggling to find a combo router that has brilliant reviews.

I really don't want to go down the seperate modem and wireless router solution.
The search continues...

Offline Mein Fuhrer

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #16 on: 19 March 2013, 12:09:18 »
Can I ask why you don't want the 2 devices.
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Ich bin mit NAZI-NET Internet Provider, Es ist gut, ja?


Offline Mein Fuhrer

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #17 on: 19 March 2013, 13:09:19 »
i found you one http://www.thinkbroadband.com/hardware/reviews/78-asus-dsl-n55u.html

http://www.asus.com/Networking/DSLN55U_Annex_A/

got a broadcom chipset. only thing you cant use it for fibre if you got it in the future they are around 90
Mein Breitband schnell ist, erhalte ich 80 Megabit pro Sekunde,
Ich bin mit NAZI-NET Internet Provider, Es ist gut, ja?


Offline michty_me

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #18 on: 19 March 2013, 14:05:07 »
I just don't want clutter around as I have enough cables etc floating around the place.
I also just want a simple setup of a combo unit.
If I knew it would benefit me massivly then I would defo go that route but it just won't. Not in my current home anyway. This may change as I am planning to move at some point this year.
I'm aiming for a much bigger place so the ones mentioned in previous posts have been kept on a note for future reference. At present, I am in a two bedroom flat.

I did see that N55U item but haven't actually read any reviews on it. I shall do that soon. Thank you for taking time out of your day to help me. I do appreciate it  :D thankyou:1

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #19 on: 19 March 2013, 14:06:58 »
No probs mate
Mein Breitband schnell ist, erhalte ich 80 Megabit pro Sekunde,
Ich bin mit NAZI-NET Internet Provider, Es ist gut, ja?


Offline Mein Fuhrer

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Mein Breitband schnell ist, erhalte ich 80 Megabit pro Sekunde,
Ich bin mit NAZI-NET Internet Provider, Es ist gut, ja?


Offline snadge

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #21 on: 19 March 2013, 23:06:55 »
nice find tom - that should be pretty good - although the ADSL side of it is a TREND chipset which means no tweaking of SNR Margin (I think) - I tried a TREND router on my line and it sync'd really high speed compared to my Netgear DG834GT and DG834N

DG834GT = 15.3Mbps (Broadcom 6348)
DG834N = 15.8Mbps  (Broadcom 6358)
2504N = 16.4Mbps  (Broadcom 6362)
HG521= 16.9Mbps (Trend)
SKY HUB = 17.2Mbps (Broadcom 6361)

of course those have all gone up a little since (due to ISAM firmware upgrade i reckon)

If you dont really bother with SNR Tweaking then the Asus will be spot on!
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Offline Mein Fuhrer

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #22 on: 19 March 2013, 23:16:14 »
I thought it was Broadcom
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Offline Mein Fuhrer

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #23 on: 19 March 2013, 23:29:00 »
I think you are right mate
Mein Breitband schnell ist, erhalte ich 80 Megabit pro Sekunde,
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Offline snadge

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Re: Best router going
« Reply #24 on: 19 March 2013, 23:41:50 »
I think you are right mate

well the Wiki site shows Ralink and Trend - upon further inspection the Ralink appears to be a Wifi chip - so that means the other is the ADSL, plus I aint heard of Ralink ADSL chips?? so just puttin 2 n 2 together
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